Food and Wine in Utopia: Interview 4 (Winemaker)

Foreword

                In this series of interview about Food and Wine in Utopia, I interviewed my business partner, the other winemaker of Yata Eagle Wines. No book to read with this one. We highly recommend drinking our wine before/after/during this reading.

How long have you been in the wine industry? Do you plan to stay in it in the long run? What is your motivation to stay in or leave?

I have been in the wine industry since 2017 and have no plans to leave. 7 years is just the tip of the iceberg. My motivation is derived from a desire to perfect a craft; something that takes a lifetime. The mix of farming, fermenting and science is the perfect drive to stay interested in the long haul. 

Is the motivation the same when you first joined and compared to now? Or was it more naïve and romantic the first time you got into this industry?

The motivation is the same, but the blinders have largely been removed. People don’t enter the industry to get rich but rather to participate in a timeless profession that hasn’t changed much in thousands of years. When one enters with such bucolic ideals of vine husbandry, they are quickly disabused of the purely artistic notion of the profession by the realities of day-to-day work. The juxtaposition of the ancient and the modern clash almost as much as fermenting grapes does with tax classifications.

Do you think there are problems in the wine industry? What is the biggest problem in the industry? What is the biggest problem that impacts YOU?

The wine industry suffers from a dependence on too much money. Like artists, winemakers largely need sponsors to fund their creativity. However, since competition is higher than ever, what is considered the best wine is likely what is topical and what sells well. Thus, wine is trendy, ego dependent and lacks the true freedom of spirit that would really provide the consumer with the best possible choices. Money is also often spent only on what superficially boosts the brand’s appeal and doesn’t trickle down to the individuals who spend their lives crafting the product. Finally, the cost of making wine means wine is expensive. Thus, only individuals with money get to taste something truly special. Therefore, money makes a full circle from the pockets of the rich, to the enjoyment of the rich, and returns to the rich. 

In a utopian society, obviously these problems will be addressed but do you think all the problems can be addressed? Is there anything that you think can't be addressed? 

Addressing the problem of money is difficult. However, subsidies for the wine industry might really help. If farming costs and wine region marketing could be propped up by government aid (like you see for cheap corn and dairy) you might see more successful small brands and cheaper high-quality wine for the end consumer. 

When we talk about subsidies, we have to think of where the money will come from, what the budget of a government would look like in a utopian society. Briefly, do you think there will be more budget flexibility from taxes? From the nationalization of certain industries or markets? Or from removing budget spending on certain industries like the military? 

I’m not an economist. However, I would look to Europe as an example of how to support this industry. Why is it that wines shipped across the Atlantic from France and Italy, stored in warehouses, distributed to wine shops and finally sold to the end consumer, are on quality parity with US wines and yet are cheaper[1]? Surely there are many factors at play (multi-generational land ownership, etc.), but countries like France have regional government help that help keep the industry afloat. Yes there are examples of French wines that are astronomically expensive, but there are endless examples of affordable, delicious wines as well. In a Utopian society, we would focus more of our tax money on supporting “small farming” rather than aiding big agriculture growing corn that goes into our Doritos. 

What do you think will be the combination we see in the future? More of higher quality wines, more worse wines? Or less worse wines? Less better wines, more worse wines, etc. 

Unfortunately, farming in the United States seems to be on the downturn as far as profitability is concerned. That means you will likely see fewer and fewer small producers making affordable wine. The likelihood of high-quality wine remaining a hobby for the rich is very high. 

What is a common problem you see in our current system or in the general economy that is also true of the wine industry? How will this be addressed in utopia? 

Everything is becoming more expensive, and wealth is not divided equally. Wealth inequality in the US today is worse than before the fall of the Roman Empire, where inequality was considered a major driver of the collapse. We live in a very unequal society. Wine is becoming a luxury good, and it’s just one of the many examples of an inability to provide a similar quality of life to people across the wealth divide. 

What intersectionality does wine have in utopia? Environmentalism? Class struggles? Gender discrimination? International trade politics?

The wine industry is a mirror of these issues. Look closely and you’ll see a struggle between the desire to be sustainable and the desire to be profitable, a division in class between the people who farm and make the wine and the people who drink it, a disproportionate male presence in lead roles, and finally a constant battle to promote domestic wine while praising wines of Europe as being superior.

What about the grapes we use? Should we still stick to French varieties? The ones that need fungicide treatment like mildew pressure? Or will there be more hybrid vines that address these problems?

I’m not sure about hybrids – vinifera will likely always dominate. However, as winemakers and farmers, we should be thinking about the future. Farming is not something that lends itself kindly to failing to adapt. As we see the world warming around us, we need to start planning to plant varieties that are more naturally suited for the local climate. As consumers, we need to do our part to open our minds and broaden our palates. Wine educators and critics would do well to start promoting diversity rather than homogeneity. 

When it comes to wine in utopia, what do you think the pay structure of workers and the affordability of wine should be?

Think of it this way: without farm workers there will be no farming. Without the winery crew, there is no wine. Even with all the hype surrounding AI, we are still in the infancy of automated farming in high quality grape growing. Therefore, we need to focus on solving the riddle of balancing growing farming costs with supporting the people who grow and make our wine. It can’t fall all on the producer, all on the consumer or all on the government. How do we strike this balance? It’s hard to say but we are in desperate need of an answer. 

Right now, we're seeing a decline in wine consumption. How do you think utopia will address these problems? Less wine production? Or what strategy is there to get people to incorporate wine into their tradition/culture?

I think if we can make higher quality wine more affordable, we will see a reversal of a lot of these trends. It’s not like young people don’t want to drink wine. It’s just that a $6 beer is a lot more appealing if you are spending more than half of your income on rent. 

What is the biggest obstacle to utopia?

The growing wealth disparity of the United States. In order to get to “Utopia” I think we really need to stop obsessing over the story of Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk. Our collective fascination with individual success obfuscates the predicaments facing hundreds of millions of Americans in their daily lives. Here I believe we really need some mental reframing. I’m not advocating for communism or even socialism, but instead a change of the focal point from the glorification of the individual to the glorification of our success as a community. Why do we lie to ourselves by saying that we need people to become trillionaires someday in order for the American dream to have juice? Do we really think people won’t be motivated to be creative or work hard if they can’t own their own private island? This seems to just be a misdirection. For many people, a more equitable society would be a more utopian society. If we have to tax the nation’s highest earners more, so be it. Here we actually come to a very positive point to end on: if we can simply start caring for everyone else a little more and pass legislation to prove it, we really can affect change.